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not only are we going to do everything we can to organize and bring pressure on those senators, some of whom are knee a a neanderthals -- >> you're too kind. >> -- to get those senators to
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do what they should be doing. >> welcome to "morning joe." it's so nice, harold ford, when democrats are calling other democrats neanderthals. >> the debate has gotten serious. >> it has. harold ford jr., thank you for being with us. a good day for us. thank you so much. >> i agree with you. >> what did i say you could not agree with me about? >> i have to say i was told to say that. >> well, thank you. >> who told you to say it? >> someone told harold not to agree with me completely. >> on health care, i think you made the right point. this is a democratic issue, but the way you argued it i thought was very fair and very convincing. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> you think i look good?
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>> no comment. >> what are you, bill karins? >> savannah guthrie. >> you can sit a little bit closer. >> really? >> she's like, you know -- >> i just -- they said keep your distance from willie. that was the only advice they gave me. >> that was good advice. >> and willie geist, i have a bone to pick it you, sir. >> uh-oh. >> of course i don't wake up early enough to see "way too early." usually i wake up at 5:45, but i want to show everybody this picture you use when mike barnicle called in today. you know, i think most of us know that watch this show regularly where that screen grab was from. that was after big daddy uttered a certain word. rub my nose in it. >> that's the publicity shot mike barnicle had taken. >> show the shot again. it is sad this is the best fphoo
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they have of mike barnicle. >> he looks good. >> that is him, photo shop. we have a lot to talk about today and we want to talk, like you said, about the democratic battle now and savannah, also catch up with what's going on with barack obama. this guy has had an unlucky summer. it's been a bad summer, about 20 points in the polls. he goes to martha's vineyard. he's spending millions and millions and millions -- that's like a multikazillion dollar beach house up in martha's vineyard. >> and there's a hurricane on the way. >> and there's a hurricane. this has been an unkind summer. >> metaphor alert. go on. >> willie geist, are you going to take us through the news? >> savannah, do you want to do the news? >> they said my head would get bigger if i also read the news and they weren't sure i could read. >> this thing, i mean the screaming in the makeup room
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this morning with savannah -- >> the rollers weren't big enough. >> my god. i know. i think it's unfair for you to expect them to actually have, like, huge sunglasses for you to wear in there. >> well, it's true but with the tanning bed i require, i kind of do need the sunglasses. i don't want to damage my retinas. >> we're used to bill karins. >> karins is back. >> mika brzezinski is not evil like that. >> we miss her. >> how come savannah doesn't sit as close to willie as mike barnicle does? >> savannah looks somewhat scared. >> i do. they say -- you know what, you do your thing and i'll do -- >> wow. fair enough. guthrie, welcome, i guess. time for a look at some of today's top stories. there are reports this morning of new recommendations coming
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from the justice department to reopen several cases of detainee abuse at the hands of the cia and private contractors. according to this morning's "new york times" the move not only reverses the bush administration's position but it also exposes interrogators to potential prosecution. meanwhile, the white house has reportedly approved a new plan to create an elite group of interrogators -- this is on the front page of "the washington post" today. the plan moves oversight away from the cia and bans certain interrogation methods including sleep deprivation. meanwhile, there are suggestions for military officials the top u.s. commander in afghanistan may request as many as 20,000 additional u.s. troops there. it comes amid a raging insurgency and mounting calls of alleged vote fraud in last week's still undecided presidential election. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel is live. >> reporter: good morning,
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willie. you can't separate the factors out. the fact there are so many doubts now about last week's election is not a good sign about the overall u.s. mission here. after eight years it seems that the government with all of the u.s. and nato forces that have been helping them provide security and stability were not able to organize an election that many people have found credible. the leading opposition candidate abdullah abdel be a said many p were legally registered. there is a commission investigating those claims. it says it has found at least 35 claims that are serious enough that it could have affected the election. >> richard, does it matter -- and this may sound silly to you, does it matter who win this is election as far as the united states is concerned? what's the difference between these two men being in power? >> reporter: what's at issue right now, and i'll get to that
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in one second, on the surface each candidate claims they're very different. abdullah abdullah says he wants to bring legitimate governing to the people, he wants to spread out basic services to a lot of the towns and villages that have received nothing from president karzai. karzai wants to sit down with everyone including the taliban, have a new national assembly and create some sort of peace and dialogue. the real problem is, however, that the system appears to have collapsed and that there is no clear process in place right now that everyone is accepting. there are many allegations the election itself was so riddled with fraud that it might not have been credible or legitimate and that is the problem we're facing right now. >> all right. nbc's richard engel live in kabul this morning. thank you so much. canadian police said, this is a bizarre story, they have found the body of a reality tv
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contestant wanted for killing his model ex-wife. ryan jenkins, who prompted an international manhunt after fleeing the u.s., apparently took his own life while hiding at a motel east of vancouver and, by the way, they identified his wife over the weekend by her breast implants. true story and a bizarre one. meanwhile, hurricane bill is being blamed for the death of a 7-year-old girl who was swept out to sea off the coast of maine on sunday. a rogue wave, is is what they're calling it, slamming into the shore engulfing a group of people and sweeping that little girl into the water. footage released by the coast guard shows the rescue. one of the survivors is heard screaming in pain. the death of a 54-year-old swimmer in florida saturday is also being blamed on the now weakening storm. there is a state of emergency in greece this morning. check out these pictures as wildfires rage near the capital of athens. the city's northern suburbs have now been evacuated. the outbreak comes just two years after a deadly rash of fires left thousands of people
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homeless and those flames are now creeping up on the city limits. and finally the world war ii epic "inglorious basterds" pulled in more than $37 million, the best opening ever for a quentin tarantino film. anybody see it? >> not this weekend. i took my wife to see "julie and julia." >> how was that? >> if there's a contest for greatest movie actress, call it off. it is over. meryl streep -- >> it's been over for a while. >> always remarkable. she was unbelievable. >> it seems like a chick movie. >> i'm a chick flick movie guy. started crying at the end. >> "terms of endearment"? >> i hated that one.
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play it on christmas eve, i stop crying by december 27th. bridget jones diary. "you've got mail" like 29 times. in fact my wife every time, because they play it on a continuous loop on one of those movie channels, my wife will walk in and, you know, she'll be just rolling her eyes at me because she knows i'm about to start weeping. >> give each other pedicures. >> no, she's the tough one in the family. but meryl streep, she's unbelievable. >> every time out. she is. speaking of your wife, joe, we have bill karins upstairs. >> come on. god, my wife enjoyed his vacation because she didn't have to hear the attacks day in and day out. >> bill, welcome back after a long week away. >> don't forget, joe -- >> let's turn over a new leaf. just don't say it. just turn over a new leaf and tell us the weather. >> all right. i'll be nice. i'll just save it for the commercial break. let's talk a little bit about
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the hurricane that is now a tropical storm. it did weaken. it did do its damage to the beaches. this was a swing and a miss for the eastern seaboard. the storm is now long gone. some of those big waves are kicking up, though. maybe five to ten-foot range. there's still a little bit of danger at the beaches, some rip currents. overall the threat is diminishing. forecast today everyone is going to love it from boston down to d.c. it has been so humid the last ten days or so, finally some of that drier canadian air is going to move in. temperatures are going to be about 85 to about 87 degrees today. should be mostly sunny. some clouds here and there. it will be a dry day. the rest of the forecast in the country looks fantastic. detroit, cleld, chicago, kansas city, atlanta. hot still in san antonio. anyone travel out west today is going to be dry and sunny. it looks like a fantastic monday, joe. >> doesn't that feel better, really, bill? don't you feel clean, a bit cleaner? >> oh, you forgot about "ghosts" when we all watched that
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together, too. >> this is weird. >> it is weird because i never saw that. my wife kept saying she saw it with me. now i know. >> here we go again. >> thanks a lot. >> thanks so much, bill. so not only was i on "meet the press" yesterday, even though that's all the kids are talking about, tavis smiley was on, too. tavis had this to say about president obama. >> the bottom line is dr. king warped years ago of taking the tranquilizing drug. we're not going to reform health care doing it gradually. he has to be bold about this. my grandfather said if you're going to stand, stand. if you're going to sit, sit, but don't wobble. the president is wobbling on this issue. he can't do that if we're going to reform health care. >> so you have maxine waters going after democratic senators that are going wobbly and now tavis smiley, a big supporter of president obama, saying he's going wobbly. >> he's speaking to the public option, the public health
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option. monday they say they're for it. tuesday they may not be for it. where i disagreed, and i thought tavis was wrong, you talked about there was no real effort of bipartisanship. i think there was. grassley said -- senator grassley said from the outset he could not support a public health option. obama suggested that he should and what did jon kyl, one of the senior republicans in the senate say? regardless whether or not you take the public health option out or not, republicans will not support this bill. the effort for bipartisanship was not as great as you wanted, but i think there's been an effort to do this. for kyl to say it suggests they're being disingenuous, the senate republicans are, about whether they would support this or not. >> at the same time though, my point is democrats have 60. filibuster proof. they have a 79 advantage we republicans never had that. they had a 79-seat advantage in the house. they have a president who has the pen to sign it. they can pass any legislation
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they want anytime they want if they can get the party together. >> no big policy change has ever been passed. social security, medicare -- >> they don't need bipartisanship now. they have the votes. i like frank rich. you like frank rich? >> i like him and respect him. >> i like him and respect him. he had the funniest op-ed yesterday i've ever seen. do you know who he's blaming in tom coburn. do you know how much power he has in the united states senate to shape health care? about as much as my dog. he has no power. frank rich wrote an entire article saying that this was tom coburn's fault. tom coburn, you have barack obama shouldn't be trying to make deals with tom coburn. he's not. he was a punch line in the campaign. >> i want to make sure coburn knows. >> golden retriever. is that not the truth? >> no, i think that as much as i
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like frank -- democrats play a big role here. if he can pull democrats together, they can do it. >> they play the entire role. they own it. barack obama's a basketball coach. he owns the arena. the only people playing on 0 the court, his people. if they were all together instead of fighting each other at midcourt, they could be doing lay-ups the whole time. instead barack obama is climbing up in the stands yelling at that guy that always screams at opposing players. it's rush limbaugh. no, it's not. no, it's not. no! it's the democrats' fault. come together right now. achoo!
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two men are claiming victory over there in afghanistan. you see what eight years of american occupation can do? before we went there they were like in the stone age and now they've caught up to florida in 2000. finally they're going to have a run-off election. that's when the taliban shows up and everyone runs off. >> bill maher. with us now mike allen from politico. he has a look as he always does
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at this time of the morning. >> what? >> look alive. >> sorry, sorry, i was in my happy place. >> mike allen with the politico playbook. good morning, mike. >> please tell savannah not to feel bad, i had trouble with my rollers this morning as well. >> you know what? you look good. >> they worked, though. yours worked, mike. let's talk about the number one story on the playbook, the republican national committee and the way they're playing this health care debate, where are they going next? >> joe is it going to love this. after years, decades of medi-scare democrats saying republicans will take away your medicare if you elect them. turning the table, another example of how the party is feeling up on their toes in the health care debate and today rolling out a seniors health care bill of rights. number one is that they will not use medicare to pay for other entitlements. this is tweaking for the president. part of the way to pay for the
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plan is to reduce medicare payments. he is trying to cut the bottom line. >> mike, explain this to me because democrats did demagogue this shamelessly in the 1990s. i'm asking to see if republicans are doing the same thing. we followed bill clinton's earlier recommendation where we slowed down the rate of growth because medicare was going bankrupt. medicare is again going bankrupt. is that what president obama is doing now? is he just slowing the rate of growth over ten years? >> no, this is slightly different and i agree with you one of the cheap tricks over the years has been to refer to 0 a decline in the rate of growth even though that still is by definition an increase. >> you call spending increases cuts and that's what democrats said. what are they doing to demagogue the issue? >> equally dishonest but in a different way. that is they're suggesting that my grandma, my grandpa might lose coverage. in fact, what happened under the president's plan is the medicare advantage, which is a supplement
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that some people have, the compensation rates for providers would be cut back. the administration is claiming that insurers pocket a lot of money out of this. they say it would be more efficient but by reducing the bottom line that gives an opening to republicans which they're jumping into. they also on this six-point bill of rights they'll be rolling out today, of course they also throw in a little reference to end of life counseling. can't resist that. >> that's a real shame because regardless of who is president next, willie, medicare is going to be bankrupt in seven or eight years. i certainly hope -- i have to look into it -- but i hope the republicans aren't demagoguing this as shamefully as the democrats did. it's a big mess. you know who else is in a big mess? mr. reid. harry reid. the guy who called americans evil. >> mike allen, tell us about this. i was reading the las vegas review journal. i'm heading out there this
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weekend. >> reading the metro section? >> a few meetings. tell us about harry reid. i was reading these polls in the paper. tell us about it. >> forget about harry reid. i want to know why you're going to las vegas? >> it's a long story. >> it's research. willie goes to vegas. >> willie, do you have any openings for interns? >> not at present. we'll talk off line. >> the senate majority leader does have a problem down by double digits against the potential challenger danny tarkanian. he's down against another challenger, the state republican party chairman. and joe will recognize the danger of this number right now. incumbent leader, one of the most powerful people, maybe the most powerful person in the senate, his approval rating back home, 37%. >> wow. >> that's the number george w. bush could laugh at. >> that is unbelievable. all right.
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>> is danny tarkanian the tark's son? >> yes. how could he not win? >> and a basketball star himself. >> who can be against him? mike allen, thank you so much. >> have a great week. >> we appreciate it. this is, harold, we politicians were always told if you're an incumbent and you get under 50%, you're in big trouble. harry reid's at 37%. i wouldn't be placing a lot of dough on his campaign right now. >> the thing he has going for him, one, he's still the leader of the senate. me having run for the senate, when you run against a party that's in the majority, they're saying the senate, particularly those in the majority -- >> first of all, remember that did not help tom daschle who was majority leader when he was beaten. >> true. i would agree with you. two, the most important number for democrats going into this election season is jobs.
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if the jobs numbers begin to turn around, democrats will benefit. third, looking at this poll, at least neither republican candidates are above 50%. if you look at the senate races, you generally win in that state by one or two points. so reid finds himself still in this race. he's a democrats. and if jobs turn around, democrats benefit. if they do not, my party will face turmoil. >> that's going to help but republicans are going to pour money in. i didn't realize this until yesterday and it was tavis who brought this to my attention that republicans are outraising democrats. >> i think the month of july -- >> isn't that stunning? for the year, i thought tavis said. >> i'm not sure if it's by the year. the last two months. >> they're going to pour money in to harry reid's race. now, and this is what
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progressives need to understand, moderate democrats, you have people like harry reid that are going to be running for their life. you have other moderates that win in republican states. >> when i ran for senate, a lot of the liberals jumped on me. they thought i was too conservative. if you want to hold a majority, you have to support the moderate, conservative wing of the party. >> we republicans made the same mistake. i made the mistake in '95 and '96. looked at moderates being against the conservative cause and i went to the northwest and started campaigning for some of them and i went from the traitor to hugging them thinking i can't believe you got elected as a republican in this district. what can i do to help? i'm serious. democrats are doing the same thing now. all right. we're going to continue and hopefully savannah guthrie will quit interrupting. still ahead former secretary of
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state under president clinton will be with us. pat buchanan in a few minutes, "washington post" columnist jonathan capehart with the most outrageous pants. no, show the pants. go down with the camera, show the pants. also, as you gaze upon that spectacle, we'll also have anthony wiener and a look at papers around the country. the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber.
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welcome back to "morning joe." as you look at a place where savannah guthrie spends a lot of her time, the white house. time for a look at today's top stories. for the firts time in more than 30 years social security payments are not expected to rise. although benefits cannot legally go down premiums for the medicare drug program are expected to rise leaving millions of older americans with a smaller monthly check. the white house is facing a new financial setback after acknowledging that over the next decade the federal deficit may be $2 trillion bigger than previously estimated. >> by the way, this, willie, is what we've been saying around this table for six months that the white house was lying about the numbers. in fact, most economists were
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saying the same thing. they admitted it, dumping this news on a friday afternoon in august. >> and they've finally come around with that. the figure is expected to swell now to $9 trillion instead of that $7 trillion number predicted earlier this year. >> the deficit increased only $2 trillion over the weekend. >> that's in line with what cbo had. as much as it is a shock, the fact of the matter is we have known for months that the white house, all of its projections were based on data from january, before we knew what happened to gdp. >> not even old data. data that was wildly unrealistic even in january. a lot of people ask why the white house is doing this. republicans, reagan did this. remember? they do it so they don't have to make tough choices. we will invent $2 trillion out of thin air so we can put all of these programs in our budget and then they cut it back and
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america is in big trouble. >> and they're also projecting, what, 4% growth. >> 4% growth. >> not going to happen. >> seriously, we were not experiencing 4% growth regularly. >> right. >> during the housing problem. >> exactly. one more story for you here. drivers have just a few more hours to take advantage of the government's cash for clunkers rebate program. car dealerships will have until 8:00 p.m. tonight to file their paper in order to be repaid for the incentives. >> all right. let's take a look at the morning papers. t "the washington post" talks about a new unit that questions key terror suspects. shifts interrogation to the white house. >> "the new york times," justice department's ethics office recommends reopening nearly a dozen prisoner abuse cases. the reversal of the decision could lead to prosecutions. also in "the times" the military says afghan forces insufficient. war troops deteriorating. >> that's what we suggested
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would happen last week, defensemens of certain reporters. "wall street journal," afghan vote threatened by fraud allegations. wildfires burning, ancient acrop lis in athens. >> sunny, a chance to chill. the president and his family arrive at martha's vineyard for a week of rest and relaxation. >> and hurricanes. and "the "boston globe"" obamas enter quietly. vineyard is in a frenzy for a glimpse at the first family. you were up there a week ago? >> the weather was fine. the president will enjoy it. i agree with barnicle, it has more of a blue collar feel. >> the vineyard. it has more of a blue collar feel than people give it credit for. the price of dinner didn't reflect the blue collar -- >> why isn't capehart wearing his nantucket red in honor -- >> i don't know. willie and i do a lot of charity
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work up in nantucket for poor, disadvantaged kids. you would think capehart could join in and help us out. >> instead he's wearing his scrubs. >> we have jonathan capehart wearing his pajamas. he's going to help us look at this morning's -- >> there he is. >> i'm so proud of you for wearing pajamas. in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever. i don't know anything about computers and my daughter is going to college, so she needs one. - can you help me? - ( shouting ) - yes, you. - our line of next class laptops are perfect for college, and they start at just $650.
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this state is not in the trouble michigan is in, pennsylvania is in, and massachusetts is in but you don't see in those other states this crescendo about getting rid of the governor that's because we're in a recession. and i submit that the same kind of treatment that patrick is receiving right now in massachusetts and i'm receiving, the way in which the new york state senate was written about, calling them a bunch of people with thick necks that we're not in the post racial period and the reality is that the next victim on the list, and you see it coming, is president barack
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obama who did nothing more than try to reform a health care system. >> with us now is editorial writer of "the washington post," msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart. jonathan, is the press picking on governor paterson because he's black? >> no. no, they are not. >> how about because he's one of the worst governors in the history of the republic? could that be why they're picking on him? >> i don't know if he's one of the worst in the history of the republic and i have to say i know governor paterson, i've known him for years, i've socialized with him. to hear that quote was really troubling. >> can i ask you a question? did he pick out your pants this morning? >> would you stop that. come on. no. >> here's the pants cam, by the way. jonathan capehart's -- they look like pajamas to me. look at that. >> put him in the light. >> they are prada bought in 2001. this is about the fifth time i've worn them. >> you are so affected. >> i wore them to a friend's
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wedding on martha's vineyard almost a year ago today. >> they are martha vineyard pants. >> governor paterson, i think, has waded into a very wrong and troubling area. >> harold ford, let me ask you, is governor paterson being picked on because he's a black man? >> i don't believe so. i happen to think jonathan is right. full disclosure, not as long as jonathan but know him, socialize with him. i think there's a degree of frustration you and i can appreciate this being in politics. you reach a point you've been picked on so much. the new york press is probably as grueling and as tough as any in the country but i remember the press article on george bush. i can remember the press articles even sometimes on governor cuomo and governor pataki here in this state. not being from here -- >> my god, what about -- >> even harry reid, as you look at him in nevada, he's being beat up. politics is a contact sport and when you are delivering, people love you. when you're not delivering, people will come after you.
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new york is particularly tougher. >> and let's face it, he got off to such a rough start by how badly he handled caroline kennedy. he handled that miserably. he embarrassed himself, he embarrassed miss kennedy -- >> he did. >> he hasn't recovered from it. >> i saw the governor in july and his spirits were actually up because he had just appointed a lieutenant governor which as we know last week the court said, no, that's invalid and now that's all gone to hell and his poll numbers were picking up but clearly the sound of his voice in a radio interview, the level of frustration, harold is right, is now off the charts. i can't imagine governor paterson, the david paterson i knew, would never, ever have said that. >> by the way, are you friends with paterson, too? >> full disclosure, i have never met had him. what i think is interesting, one of obama's staffers who
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connecteded with new york politics called and said, you know what, leave us out of it. they didn't care at all. >> let's do our must-read op-eds and start with kathleen parker, summertime for hitler. anybody at the table know hitler? >> full disclosure, no. >> i'm on a limb on that one. >> it usually means two things. poverty of imagination and a paucity of good arguments. i had made this suggestion yesterday on "meet the press" and i was barraged by angry e-mailers just saying we've seen both sides to this. we've seen both sides engaged in hate speech the last 20 years. we need to rise above it.
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these hitler analogies are particularly offensive. >> they're offensive and also they're not even that eloquent, right? it's just a short hand for everything bad and it doesn't exactly get to the heart of whatever anyone is complaining about. it seems lazy. it is lazy. hitler reductionist. >> don't know him. don't care to know him. >> he said that twice. >> i agree. you also said bringing guns and so forth distracted the conversation. i do think one thing my party has to be sensitive to, though, labeling these people is a little politically dangerous on our part. there are a group of people out there who are concerned about spending, that government has grown a bit -- grown too much. i think those are legitimate questions and deserve serious answers. you and i may just disagree on the size but i wouldn't dismiss your argument as fringe like and i would hope you wouldn't dismiss my response. >> jonathan capehart, the problem is bringing guns is insane. first of all, as i said
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yesterday, the guy was 100% nra rating and i can tell you it hurts the cause for these people to have guns strapped to them, black or white or whomever is carrying the gun, and, secondly, it makes the secret service's job harder. >> a whole lot harder. >> as we're talking about both sides, i think harold has a great point. when -- >> let's just stop there. >> let's say i'm sitting at home and i relate jonathan to the protesters. i'm not crazy, not screaming, sitting at home going, yeah, i'm glad somebody is out there stopping the government. and then call to people doing that evil. nancy pelosi accuses them of un-american tactics. jerry nadler and others accuse him of fascist tactics. that ends up hurting democrats in the end because there are millions of people who aren't going out there that relate to those people. >> that's absolutely right and what also hurts democrats is not
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understanding that the party is a whole lot bigger than the progressive left wing of the party. you guys were talking about democrats and republicans going at each other. how about the blue dogs going up against the progressives? if the democrats want the president to succeed and they want him to get health care and climate change, which may or may not come up after this, then they're going to have to give. the problem that the white house has is not with, i don't think, the republicans, it's with its own pockets. they have 60 votes but it's just 60 votes and democrats labeling only. >> you're right. let me read frank richards because you just made the point that i made earlier today which is this isn't a democratic versus republican battle anymore. it's republicans can't stop it. democrats have all the votes. frank rich goes through august and last year's campaign debates obama unlikely senate friendship with tom coburn of all people as proof that he can work with his adversaries. if the president insists enemies
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like these are his friends and that the nuts they represent can be placated by reason, he will waste his opportunity to effect real change and have no one to blame but himself. frank rich writes this entire column, harold, suggesting that barack obama's problem is with trying to deal with people like tom coburn. tom coburn doesn't have the power to stop this. no republican in washington, in america, on fox news, anywhere, has the power to stop this. these are defensemmocrats. >> full disclosure again, i was a blue dog member when i was there. i think they have done the democrats a service by reminding them where a big part of the democratic constituency is. two, there is some truth to what he is saying. obama reached out to republicans. for jon kyl to say after obama said i'm willing to give up the public health option which appeases the majority of the progressive wing of the party and have jon kyl, the number two
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republican in the senate say regardless of what you do, mr. president, on the public health option, we will not support a health care bill. although it's late in the game, joe, and i would agree to some extent this may should have been done in a grander way earlier but for the president to say i'm willing to give this up if republicans will come along, i do think there's a bit of truth. >> i never heard the president say that. >> the president said the public health option was one part of it. >> he was not placating jon kyl when he said that. he was placating claire mccaskill, evan bye -- >> chuck grassley said he could not support a health care reform bill with the public health option. obama said i'm pulling it out was a big step. >> again, he was doing that for democrats not for republicans. (mom) my son loves chef boyardee.
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caused by a completely blocked artery, another heart attack could be lurking waiting to strike. a heart attack caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix taken with other heart medicines, goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone, to provide greater protection against heart attack or stroke and even death by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming clots. ask your doctor about plavix, protection that helps save lives. if you have a stomach ulcer or other condition that causes bleeding you should not use plavix. taking plavix alone or with some other medicines including aspirin may increase bleeding risk, tell your doctor before planning surgery or taking aspirin or other medicines with plavix, especially if you've had a stroke. some medicines that are used to treat heartburn or stomach ulcers, like prilosec, may affect how plavix works, so tell your doctor if you are taking other medicines. if fever, unexplain weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition reported sometimes less than 2 weeks after starting plavix.
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other rare but serious side effects may occur. if you take plavix with other heart medicines, continuing to do so will help increase protection against a future heart attack or stroke. feeling better doesn't mean you're not at risk. stay with plavix. welcome back to "morning joe." time for some sports. the yankees headed into boston for a three-game series. here's what they're say iing on the back page of "the post" after the yankees took two out of three. here are the highlights from last night with fred roggin. good morning. in the 108-year history of the red sox/yankees rival there has never been more runs scored than the one this past weekend. first pitch of the game and there it goes. derek jeter with a solo shot. new york up 1-0. couple hitters later, matsui joined the hit parade. yanks up 2-0 and they never looked back. in all, five home runs, matsui with two of them.
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team scored 58 runs during the series. kansas city where the twins jumped all over the royals. in the seventh. cuddyer hit not one but two home runs. first time in minnesota history that one player had a pair of homers in an inning. twins scored eight in the seventh and robbed the royals, 10-3. john smoltz made his debut for the cards against the padres. it was a good one. five innings of work. pujols continued his mvp campaign. 40th home run of the year. cards beat the padres 5-2. they have now won 9 of the last 11. wild game in new york. mets and phils. first inning. angel pagan drove one to the wall. ball got stuck in the padding. shane victorino thought it was a ground-rule double. umpire figured differently. pagan kept running and running. all the way around for an inside the park homer. and it only got stranger from there. top nine, eric bruntlett with a shot to right. francouer laid out and made the grab. or did he? umpire said no. francouer showed him his glove. i caught it right here. take another look. he indeed made the play. the umpires had a meeting and
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made the right call. he was out but he would have the last laugh. bottom nine, francouer lined out to bruntlett at short. stepped on second for one and tagged the other for a triple play. unassisted triple play to end a game since 1927. phils beat the mets in dramatic fashion, 9-7. the new cowboys stadium got a little more expensive. the team is going to have to spend another $2 million to raise the 72-foot scoreboard that hangs over the field because it's too low. they discovered the problem when the cowboys played the titans. the two tennessee punters hit the massive scoreboard several times during warm-ups and once during the game. there's no rule in the books if it hits part of the stadium. it's considered a do-over. jerry jones and the cowboys will have a $2 million do-over to fix the problem. to houston where an unexpected guest, astros carlos lee, jumped into the back row midway through the anthem and started singing much to the amusement of his teammates.
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if this baseball thing doesn't work out, we could carlos on "america's got talent." miguel cabrera fouled one into the seats and watch closely, for some reason a fan found himself having to pull up his pants. we hope they fell off during the struggle for the ball. fortunately for me i'm behind the desk and no one will ever know if i'm wearing pants. that's it for me. we'll talk to you guys tomorrow. >> what was that guy doing? >> what in the world? >> get him a pair of the prada pants. keep your pants on. >> leaves nothing to the imagination. up next, news you can't use. complete team coverage of the miss universe pageant in the bahamas. we'll have it all. the great taste
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oh, yes! is it time? >> where did that come from? from northeast harbor. hey, t.j., press that button again. >> oh, yes! is it time? >> okay. >> by the way, if you go to you can buy that as a ring time. >> that would be great. >> by the way, all the people at the table friends of david paterson.
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i want to hear the stories. >> what is his last name? i don't know, guys. >> i just know that he has an affinity for a certain controlled substance. >> cocaine. never been to a party where there was coke just sitting around the table? >> no! >> i question the relationship -- >> you said you were close friends with him for a long time. >> apparently when i wasn't there. full disclosure, true story, i live two blocks away from the days inn. it's a true story. all right. let's keep it in the tri-state area for politics. so alec baldwin in an interview with "playboy" magazine says i'm going to move to connecticut. i can't stand this guy. i'm going to run for senate and i'm going to beat joe lieberman. that's what i'm going to do because i don't like him. joe lieberman was asked about this and clint eastwood. >> first let me say when you started with the "playboy"
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reference i'm glad you ended with alec baldwin and not with one of the center folds. second, you know, make my day. but i must say that i respect alec baldwin as an actor and as a comedian and if he wants to run, that's his right. >> make my day. >> he's mocking him. >> make my day. >> he's mocking alec baldwin. >> he does that at his peril. >> you don't mock alec baldwin. >> no, you don't. >> no, seriously. >> i love alec baldwin. >> is there a funnier actor out there right now today than alec baldwin on tv? >> no. no. larry david. >> but alec baldwin, my god. >> he makes that show. now as many of you know i'm one of the country's pre-eminent authorities on pageants. here's some video now. i was one of the, quote, celebrities judges at the miss usa pageant in las vegas in april, serving under the honorable donald trump.
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well, last night we had the miss universe pageant in the bahamas. what are the criteria? what was mr. trump looking for? he told letterman quickly last week. >> how do you qualify to be miss universe contestant? >> you have to be very beautiful. >> yeah. >> an age-old situation. >> it's an age-old situation. you have to be very beautiful. so who won last night? here she is, miss venezuela is your new miss universe, friends. this is the sixth time miss venezuela has been miss universe. >> wow. >> practically has the market cornered on this thing and, you know what, miss usa not even in the final five. there you have that. the highlight of the night for me -- >> anybody fall down? >> no, no one fell down. a performance by really this country's brightest stars, heidi was married to the guy and they're famous. she has a new album out and they performed on miss universe. here we go.
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♪ ♪ baby come on ♪ control me ♪ if you're in it for real ♪ on me ♪ i know that you want me >> who says she's a no talent? >> capehart was going to wear those pants. yeah, but -- >> she took them down to the bahamas. i have to say, she answered the question why miss usa wasn't in the top five. obviously such a fierce reaction against that, holding it against our -- >> exactly right. there's still some hostility there. >> there has to be. thank you, willie geist. >> my pleasure. >> all right. a lot to talk about today. coming up we have chuck schumer. he's here talking about why a public option is necessary. anthony wiener here to talk
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about why insurance companies are not necessary. andrea mitchell going to be here straight ahead. but first let's get some news from willie. willie, what are you looking at today? today's top stories, reports this morning of new recommendations coming down from the justice department to reopen several cases of detainee abuse at the hands of the cia and private contractors. >> i must say it's jarring going from news you can't use and 30 seconds later -- >> we need a little bit longer buffer. according to this morning's "new york times" the move reverses the bush administration's position but moves interrogation to possible prosecution. a new plan to create an elite group of interrogators has been approved. according to "the washington post" this morning the plan moves oversight away from the cia and bans certain interrogation methods including sleep deprivation. >> they also say they can't use cross words, right? and also can't look at them like with mean eyes.
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>> and no caterpillars. >> butterflies, too. if they have a butterfly phobia, butterflies stay away from the terrorists. >> a lot of them are scared of butterflies. >> and, also, if they ask for chocolate cake for their birthday then it had better not be vanilla. right? make it chocolate cake. >> even german chocolate. >> you see, and that's the thing. there are so many types because you know there are a lot of people who believe if you give somebody german chocolate cake, it's chocolate-chocolate cake, that's torture. no sleep deprivation. >> a "washington post" story. >> you really do. >> it's all in there. >> and no crosswords. let's not do anything that might make these people uncomfortable. and watch your tone, seriously. sometimes when you're saying something where the words might look nice if you use a certain tone you're sending a really bad message to people like khalid
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sheik muhammad. >> use your inside voice. >> use your inside voice. i'm sorry, go ahead. there are suggestions from military officials that the top u.s. commander in afghanistan may request as many as 20,000 additional u.s. troops. >> uh-oh. i think we said that here last week. everybody said nope, nope, nope. yes. >> a raging insurgency, mounting calls of vote fraud in last week still undecided presidential election. speaking on sunday admiral mike mullen described the situation. >> it is serious and it is deteriorating. i've said that over the last couple of years that the taliban insurgency has gotten better, more sophisticated. their tactics in my recent visits out there in talking with our troops certainly indicate that. >> hey, jonathan capehart, really quickly, there's a big problem for the president and his base. another thing we said last week is afghanistan a no-win
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situation for any president, republican or democrat alike. but if you're a president with a progressive base that helped propel you to the white house, boy, this is going to really stir up a lot of liberal/progressives, isn't it? 20,000 additional troops. >> right. but here's the other thing. those folks have voted for him knowing that he said we needed to shift our attention from the war in iraq, an unnecessary war, to afghanistan where osama bin laden is hiding, that's where we need to put our attention. and they were all for it. they don't like war. so yet another thing the president is going to be fighting with the left on. >> it's going to be tough on the base. canadian police say they have found the body of a reality tv contestant wanted for killing his model ex-wife. ryan jenkins who prompted an international manhunt after fleeing the u.s. apparently took his own life while hiding in a motel east of vancouver.
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meanwhile, hurricane bill -- >> believe it or not, joe -- this is true -- not funny. they had to identify her through the serial numbers on her breast implants because the body was mutilated. >> they have serial numbers on breast implants? >> why do you do this to me? >> it said they had serial numbers? >> how about hurricane bill? >> hurricane bill being blamed for the death of a 7-year-old girl swept off the coast of maine sunday. a rogue wave slammed into the shore engulfing a group of people including that little girl. footage released by the coast guard shows the rescuer of one of the survivors is heard screaming in pain. the death of a 54-year-old swimmer in florida saturday is also being blamed on the now weakening storm. there is a state of emergency in greece this morning as wildfires rage near the capital of athens. the city's northern suburbs have now been evacuated. the outbreak comes just two years after a deadly rash of fire left thousands of people homeless around athens.
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and from this morning's "new york times" after more than seven months in office fewer than half of president obama's senior employees -- appointees are in place. only 43% of the 543 senior policy positions that require senate confirmation have been filled. 43%. vacant seats include the secretary of the army, the department of transportation inspector general, and chief performance officer. >> you know, it's getting so tough to get people appointed. again, regardless of administration. it's getting -- >> the media audit people so folks don't even want to bother with it. >> is a van, a the secretary of the army, though, there's a hold -- there's a republican hold against a republican. >> really tied up in gitmo po politics. >> in the middle of a war, 20,000 more troops in afghanistan and we don't have a secretary of the army. >> it's ridiculous because the army, of course, is the service that needs the most leadership
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right now because it has been so strained. the army has been carrying -- the army and the marines have been carrying america on its backs over the past seven, eight years. and they're stretched to a breaking point and we don't have a secretary. i think i'd find another position to hold up. you don't want to hold up the secretary of army. it is reckless. it is irresponsible given all the challenges that the army has right now and this is not even a close call. i know republicans will be ticked off at me as they always are. this is not a close call. don't hold up a secretary of army. hold up somebody else. >> savannah, is the white house concerned about this or do they feel like they can get by without filling all of these positions? >> i think this storyline probably irritates them to some degree because they feel, first of all, they've accomplished a lot in a short amount of time for starters and i think they feel those numbers, the amount is comparable to other administrations. so they're not loving this story. >> willie, take us to the top.
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>> let's go to "meet the press" where we found joe scarborough alongside david gregory and tavis smiley. the topic was health care and really who's to blame for the lack of progress. some people say it's republicans holding up the process. joe scarborough says the democratic party needs to look within. >> this is not a problem between barack obama and republicans. barack obama's been too bipartisan. it's the fact his own democrats won't follow him. if his own democrats follow him, they can pass whatever they want. if they want to get out of both wars tomorrow, if they want to shut down the pentagon, if they want to ban people from wearing blue ties on tv, they can pass whatever they want to pass. it is in their power. there is not a thing any republican can do. >> joe, this is something you've been saying on this show for weeks now. what was the reaction yesterday after the show? >> i've got to say e-mailers from the left were just outraged. outraged that i was a fascist, i was a nazi, i was this, i was
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that. of course i have my republicans who said because i was condemning the hate speech from the right as well as the left, i had republicans saying that i was no true conservative. i've given up on both extremes. seriously, they get what they deserve. they can go straight to hell. i really don't care. 85% of us in the middle. us around this table, we can act like grown-ups. we can disagree with each other and still respect each other. people got angry with me, too. i stated the truth. democrats have all the votes to pass. any piece of legislation they want to pass. anything. so democrats got angry with that. got angry when i talked. jonathan, we, as a country, have to start being more responsible. and i talked about hate speech on both sides and i meant during the bush era there was hate speech against bush, a lot of nazi references and now we hear the same thing with barack obama. now we have like sarah palin and newt gingrich on one side talking about death panels. nancy pelosi and harry reid on
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the other side talking about americans being evil or un-american tactics. it's insanity. it's insanity. and i just think americans are getting exhausted at the extremists on both ends. >> i think it would be very nice if the leaders in both parties stepped up and -- >> yes! >> -- this has to stop. we can't continue to talk about these things. how about instead of the nazi rhetoric and hitler references we talk about a specifics on health care, specifics on climate change legislation. >> there are so many problems right now. there is a conspiracy of silence from the leaders of both parties who don't want to upset their base and let's name names. on the republican side mitt romney. he's the leader, the presumptive leader for 2012. mitt romney needs to come out and call out saerm and chuck grassley who is saying this bill is going to pull the plug on grandma. that's just a lie. it's not. and then on the other side
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barack obama needs to call out harry reid for calling americans evil. nancy pelosi for talking about un-american tactics. wouldn't that put these people back in their places, stop playing to the lowest common denominator on both sides? >> you would hope so but this has been such a crazy season. we're talking about death panels, something that doesn't even exist and people take it as the gospel truth. those who are stig questioning whether the president of the united states should be president of the united states. at some point we're going to have to -- mitt romney, barack obama, responsible people in both parties need to say enough of the crap. >> right. >> let's talk about real solutions. >> "the new york times" editorial page needs to call out democrats that talk about evil americans and "the wall street journal" needs to call out republicans that are talking
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about birther situations. we have to call out our own and that's the way we grow the middle again. savannah, the white house has been shooting down, as pat buchanan would say, at rush limbaugh, at fox news, at people that have absolutely no say. rush limbaugh, seriously? powerful voice but he couldn't even stop john mccain from winning the republican nomination. he worked every day along with everybody else on talk radio to kill john mccain. john mccain -- couldn't even stop that. now barack obama is claiming rush limbaugh, fox news, all these people are somehow stopping health care. democrats own washington, d.c. we haven't had a monopoly like this in washington, d.c., in a very long time. does the white house understand at some point they're going to have to face the fact that this is an inner squad fight? that the president is going to have to get engaged and pull
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democrats from the left, the center, the right all together? >> i think they recognize that especially as the talk turns to having to do this alone and yesterday was a really good example. democrats aren't monolithic. you have another lieberman saying maybe gradualism is best. maybe we have bitten off more than we can chew. senator conrad saying i don't think we can get a public option done. senator schumer saying we have to have a public option. to say nothing of pelosi/hoyer. we have all positions and that is within the democratic party. we take your point, yes, they have all the players on the field, or the court or whatever sports metaphor we're using here. >> they own the court. >> whose side are they on? they still seem to be opposing teams in a lot of ways. >> that's right. and my only point is coach obama needs to stop looking up in the stands seeing ron artest running up, fighting with people that have no say in the cheap seats and look on the court and say, oh, wait, my team, we've got all
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the players on the court. we can do whatever we want to do. we just have to come together. >> let's all come together. >> hoosiers. >> exactly. all right. jonathan capehart, thank you. we have a present for you. i've been holding this since may when i went to naples. and brought you from the place where i get mine. >> you are such a great friend. >> i'm good, by the way. >> it matches the pants. >> i'm going to put this on right now. oh, my god. jonathan capehart has done it again. thank you, jonathan. >> you're welcome. >> could you get me some pants like that? we're going to have andrea mitchell and also chuck schumer. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies...
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these families didn't get over their wounds for eight years. they never will. and to let this person out who was one of the greatest terrorists in the last 100 years was despicable and will be a blot on those who did it for a long time.
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>> all right. with us now from washington nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. she's also, of course, the host of the show that "the new york times" says will change your life and make your children quit smoking cigarettes. that is, of course "andrea mitchell reports." chuck schumer not happy. a loft those students killed long island residents in 1988. something's going on here. i mean england gets a deal with libya and then this terrorist is released. what are you finding out? what are you hearing behind-the-scenes? was there a quit pro quo? >> schumer thinks there should be a demand for an apology from hillary clinton and an investigation, ben cardin wants an investigation. but at this stage they say they have no hard evidence of a deal, but there is so much suspicion
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that everyone is looking into it and right now u.s. officials are telling me they are basically telling the libyans how you treat this man, al megrahi, the only man convicted for one of the worst terror acts of the century, how you treat him from here on in will determine future relations. here you have next week, moammar gadhafi celebrating the 40th anniversary of his rule. a big celebration. then coming to new york we believe for the u.n. meeting and expecting a meeting with barack obama. that is not going to happen, i'm told. so there is a lot of anger and there are repercussions in terms of the continuing improvement in relations, diplomatic relations. we do have full diplomacy done by the bush white house when libya gave up its terrorism, we were told, and also its nuclear weapons but that is now being taking another look at as to how much the u.s. government at least will trust libya as not
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having terrorist roots because of the way they are treating a convicted terrorist and then the whole relationship with scotland where there's talk of boycotts against scotland and the u.s. is the biggest trading partner for scotland. >> harold ford, good morning. >> good morning. >> mullen painted a pessimistic picture in afghanistan. what's your sense from the white house as to how committed they are to committing more troops and how do they look at this politically? is this dragging them into a second war, a second conflict that could pose serious problems for the president? >> well, this is the big war and this is a serious problem and this is the major foreign policy challenge for them. they have not defined what the end game is, what the mission is, and over the weekend really importantly according to a report in "the new york times," richard holbrooke, the special envoy, was told by the commanders in the southern region, the region most affected by taliban challenges that there does need to be more troops.
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you saw that admiral mullen yesterday was being very vegas was ambassador eikenberry about just what general mcchrystal will be recommending to the president. they didn't want to say -- they didn't want to get out in front of that recommendation but already we're seeing from the reporting from what dick holbrooke is telling the people traveling with him, they want more troops. >> it's interesting speaking of dick holbrooke, he, richard holbrooke, made a very interesting comment when asked about when things will be turning around, when victory would be in hand and he quoted stewart on pornography and said we'll know it when we see it. that is not really comforting to a lot of americans. >> yeah, i'm wondering what might have been lost in diplomatic translation there. >> richard is a man of few words. so he's like an oracle. wait a second, no, he's not. >> is this the same richard
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holbrooke? >> with a personal archivist? yes, yes, it is. why would he say something like that and how is the white house reacting to that? >> well, i think they are struggling and they understand very well what holbrooke's challenge is over there. the more immediate problem will be as soon as as early as tomorrow when you may have an election result which will then be discredited, which will be challenged by the chief challenger and then you have a disputed election with widespread reports of fraud and that will undermine all the claims of the administration that they've actually done something important here and moved incrementally, yes, but moved afghanistan toward a representative democracy. >> all right. hey, andrea, thanks a lot for being with us. we'll be watching as we do every day because a lot of -- >> you have to. >> a lot of us have kids who know kids who smoke cigarettes and so we tivo it and then have them watch. what's going to be on today? >> we're going to be talking a lot about the cia inspector
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general's report that comes out today and the decisions by eric holder now with the office of professional responsibility saying that he should be prosecuting the cia. the cia right in the cross hairs, it's a big issue today. >> wow. that's not going away. thank you, andrea. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> this is problematic. by the way, we didn't -- when we introduced savannah guthrie, we didn't give her background in hollywood. we'll do that when we return. >> oh, right. >> that didn't go too well. >> because i did turn it around. >> water world. >> it was horrible. >> when we come back, who better to talk summertime fun than "the new york times" own.
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so? mmmm ok. you were right. these healthy choice fresh mixer thingys, they taste fresh... say it again! what? say it like, "mmmm, these healthy choice fresh mixers taste freshh!!" they taste fresh... wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? you were good too! but you know, it wasn't a secret to us, we knew... yes, but it was a secret to me. of course, otherwise i would be sitting like this and completely block his shot. so that's why i was like.. didn't you notice this was weird? no. they taste fresh because you make them fresh. healthy choice fresh mixers. in the soup or pasta aisle. hey, welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of new york city. you know, willie, when you think of summer fun, who do you think of? >> see that sunrise over new
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york on an august morning, i think of mark leibovich. >> no doubt about it. >> who doesn't? >> is it time? >> the ghost of mika. >> even creepier when she's not here. >> it is. kind of creepy. yes, he is here. it is time. mark leibovich of "the new york times," thanks so much for being with us. >> hi, everyone. peter travers calls mark leibovich a thrill ride. so what's going on, leibovich? what are you doing? >> well, first of all, i think i'm one of the ten people left in washington -- i mean, i was actually on martha's vineyard until yesterday and now i'm back and i think there's no one else around, so that's probably why they called me. >> yeah, well, actually, yeah. >> no, i'm kidding. >> no, you're right. that's the only reason we called you. you talked to senator baucus
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last week. we've been showing harry reid polls and showing how he's upside-down, losing by double digits. it's tough for a lot of these guys, even a guy like butaucus o has been around forever. because he's not exactly in a progressive state and yet the left is pushing him hard. talk about the pressures he's facing from the left and right. >> you said it yourself. he's taking a great deal of heat from both sides. i mean, this is someone who has never really except in 1996 had any tough re-election at all. his polls are way down out in montana and this is a somewhat embattled figure within washington. this is someone that a lot of democrats just don't trust. a lot of republicans don't trust and -- >> why don't they trust him? why don't they trust him? is it because he doesn't -- i mean, does he go back on his word or is he just a guy who doesn't play sides? >> i think he's a guy -- i think
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probably more the latter. i think, you know, he was for the bush tax cuts in 2001. he had to deal with chuck grassley last year and then he sort of turned around and supported the democrats on a key medicare bill last summer. he does sort of play both sides of the fence which i guess is smart if you want to get re-elected every six years in montana but, again, he seemed shell-shocked by the whole situation now. i saw him in a town hall meeting. he was actually surrounded by youtubes as he called him, which i think he meant cameras. no, it's true. there are even people with youtubes in the audience and i was like, whoa. he said i think i meant cameras but, anyway, i put it in my story. it went viral. >> of course you did. >> of course i did. no, he does not seem to have expected the level of invective on both sides that he seems to be getting even in a tiny state like montana.
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>> does he think he has a greater -- is there a greater political danger following than this on the far left or -- i'm talking about re-elect or crossing them and being more moderate, being a bit more like the montana voters wanted him to be? >> i don't think he sees any great electoral peril on the left. montana, like you said, is still a conservative state. there is a liberal population there and a lot of college students and a lot of former californians and so forth but, no, i think his concern, at least in montana, is more from the center but he's getting all kinds of noise from washington. i mean, and this is, i think, someone who has seen more thrilled to be out of washington than pretty much anyone else i have encountered this summer. and so, i don't know. we'll see what happens. the gang of six that you hear so much about, you don't seem to be hearing so much about now but that's probably because they're all home on recess and i think
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they're talking by phone occasionally. we'll see. >> harold ford? >> mark, good morning. does baucus' electoral challenges in montana make it more likely he'll side with grassley and republicans in looking for a health care compromise? does this push him closer to the white house in your analysis? it. >> i don't think it pushes him closer to the white house. i mean, i think at this point he seems very, very much in survival mode and i think like almost -- i mean, i got a vibe somewhat from talking to him he would have gone along with what joe lieberman said yesterday on cnn which is more incremental approach. i mean, he seems, again, much more in face-saving mode which some people are saying, you know, is whereby the white house is going to go at some point. i don't think they're there yet. baucus is much more in the middle and more to frankly consider. we'll see. >> all right. well, a lot of fascinating dynamics in the democratic
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party. mark, thanks for being with us. if it's summertime, it's mark leibovi leibovich. fascinating. former state department spokesman jamie rubin, chuck schumer and anthony wiener. the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber.
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not only are we going to do everything to bring pressure on those senators, some of whom are neanderthals -- >> you're too kind. >> -- we're going to say to the president we want you to use every weapon in your basket in order to get those senators to do what they should be doing. >> welcome back. with us now democrat from new yor york, senator chuck schumer. great to have you here. >> good morning. >> we both served with her in the house. >> we did, indeed.
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>> i love maxine. how do you not love maxine? i know you do, too. she talked about the democratic neanderthal senators that are stopping health care reform. kind of tough out there. max baucus, the moderate from a conservative state, evan bayh. >> hey, we will all come together. we will. what has happened is this, both the president, harry reid, have said we will come up with a bipartisan bill. you have three democratic senators, max baucus, kent conrad, jeff binghamton, negotiating with the republicans and the deadline keeps being pushed back. it was june 15th, june 30th, july 15th, august 1st. we're going to go every effort to get a bipartisan bill. if not we're making preparations how to get this done without it. >> so it looks like -- when you have chuck grassley, supposed to be one of these guys that
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they're going to unplug granny's life support, probably not going to be there in the end. i don't know politics like you but at this point it's very clear it's going to be a democratic bill. you guys have the votes. how do you -- so now the question is forget grassley. now how do you get the moderates to go along? >> i think we will. first, if you look at the house -- >> with a public omgs? >> if you look at what the house has come up with, there's a public option. it's the kind that some of us proposed early on, a level playing field option. let's lay this out. first, it's an option. in other words in new york state we have public colleges and private colleges. no one is forced to go to either but you get your choice. the fact there's competition between them makes it better. it is not a mandate as some are falsely and deliberately falsely saying. it is just an option. second, i proposed it's a level playing field. some on the democratic left who say the public option should just be medicare and maybe that would be good, but we're never
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going to get that. >> anthony weiner said that. >> and the people on the right who say no public and the people on the left who say no private insurance are both wrong. let's have them compete and let me just say, joe, we will be able to get just as the house did the blue dog democrats in the house, the moderate democrats in the senate, the liberals to agree on a level playing field public option. >> you think so? >> i do. >> you think max baucus and an evan bayh? >> yes. >> let's talk about a couple of conservative concerns we heard yesterday when you were on "meet the press" from orrin hatch. the first one, we're really going to let the federal government get involved in this when medicare is going bankrupt, and we both agree on that, by the way. it is going bankrupt. >> it is. that is one of the reasons we have to act here. >> this doesn't contain costs. cbo says it doesn't contain costs the way we have to. >> let me say there are two
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parts. one part is the public option. in other words if you think medicare costs have gone up, private insurance costs have gone up more than medicare. orrin hatch, you know, he talked about how medicare goes up. the cost of health care if you have private insurance has doubled in the last seven years. that's even greater than medicare. all health care costs are going up. why are all health care costs going up? very simple. i mean, it's not that simple but basically every one of us wants the best health care for ourselves and our loved ones. if there's a 1% chance of making yourself healthy and it costs $100,000, you might not buy a cadillac. wait. i just have to finish. >> no, because you're telling a truth right here. >> it is a truth. >> that nobody is talking about in this health care debate and that's what concerns me. everybody can't get everything that they want but if anybody says that, suddenly -- >> they call it rationing. >> no, no, no.
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you can do it other ways. the second point is you're not paying for it. you see what i mean? you are paying for it but not directly. you're paying for it in higher taxes because medicare costs go up. you're paying for it if you're an employer because your private health care insurance costs go up. the answer, there is a huge amount of waste, of duplication, of doing things at the end that cost a fortune. you can still preserve this basic system and give people what they want but, for instance, let me give you an example. every doctor, every hospital wants the highest end equipment and the highest end everything. right now there's no control over that. >> right. >> if you said in new york my constituents they don't want to wait to get an mri but they don't mind walking five blocks and not having the mri in that doctor's office or that hospital's office, there are so many things like that we can do and that's what we're trying to do here. that's the untold part of this bill. you can greatly reduce costs.
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no one has ever tried. no one has ever tried to reduce any of the costs in health care and so for the reason -- >> these devices, again, we agree these cost issues -- >> that's the number one reason. >> right. exactly. anybody that's serious, doesn't matter whether they're republicans or democrats, no. this is the reality facing us. we are in deep trouble as a country. >> joe, i'm glad you're saying that. the average citizen will say, well, i'm fine now. i don't need any change and then the fear mongers come out and say this, this, and this. yes, you may be fine right now. but if the private insurance industry doubles costs again in seven years, three or four years from now, they're going to call you in and say, harold, i'm your employer. i love you, harold. you're a great worker but i can't afford your health care anymore. i'm going to have to stop paying for it. this is going to start happening
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everywhere. so the president shows courage to do it. now how do you get the costs down? we know how to do it. basically you have to change the system of payment where it's not just fee for service where every service gets a fee. we learned this from the defense department where it was cost plus. rather, they say, okay, the schumer insurance company, i'm going to get $10,000 to insure this gargoyle family and i have to figure out the best way to do it. it doesn't affect scarborough. you still go to your doctor. but there are going to be the waste, the fraud, the duplication. >> can you stay with us? >> i can, yes. welcome to progressive. how may i help you? i'm looking for a deal on car insurance. i think i might have a coupon in here. there's an easier way. we've got the "name your price" option. you do? follow me. you tell us how much you want to pay, and we'll build you a policy that fits your budget. and i still get great coverage? uh-huh. go ahead. you're the boss. i'm the boss of savings. more like the c.e.o.
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welcome back. we have with us still chuck schumer and former state department spokeman jamie rubin. let's finish up our last discussion because here's my problem with president obama. i do think cost is the issue. i don't think he's adequately addressed cost because he's afraid, like any politician would be afraid. again, you even talk about counseling and that morphs into death panels. >> that's from people who want to kill the bill. >> other than waste, fraud and abuse because we always say that, where is the cost savings? >> i want to say how can john boehner who voted for the exact same provision of counseling in the medicare bill go out and say what he's saying now? that's just an attempt to kill
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any bill and it's purely political. but this is what -- this is not what the press is reporting on but i'm on the finance committee, when we sit in the room for hours and hours on end, this is the number one thing we're discussing because it is somewhat unchartered waters. the incentives are all wrong and we have to change the incentives but at the same time keep the basic type of health care we have when you choose your own doctor, the doctor makes the decisions. you can do it. what you have to do is change, as i said, the system of reimbursement from a cost plus over to a system and this bill does it. it takes about ten years to get it completely done but it will not affect the average person's health care. there's not going affect the av health care. it's going to be useless waste to have extra things. these are the things that will
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happen. we can get this done. by the way, the interesting thing about this, this is one place where there is agreement between democrats and republicans. >> i have yet to talk to somebody in health care that really understands the system. we are facing a financial armageddon if we don't face health care costs first. >> this is not number one, but number two. the public option will bring down costs. we all know what happens whether it's the auto industry or oil industry, when you have two or three companies, they don't compete on costs but other things. we need a new element bringing that element back into option. the number one way to do it is to change the system of reimbursement. so the buck stops with the
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provider, the insurance company, who is doing things that are just unnecessary. maybe ten years from now you will be in a more different situation. >> we are going to change topics. let's talk afghanistan, jamie. the general is asking for 20 more troops. is that necessary? >> all of us, we need to ask are we in it to win it? we have not fully made that decision after a long period of neglect on the bush years, of a fwan stan is being taken sa en afghanistan is being taken seriously by his team. >> you think the president had to do it? >> of course he does. afghanistan -- earlier on this
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show there was discussion about if it's a war of choice. there are two kinds of uses of force. one is about national security and the other about moral purposes and humanitarian purposes. if this was about national security, anybody that lives in new york city and anybody in our country understands the danger of that. this is a war about national security. it's not a war about moral or humanitarian concerns. we have to do what is necessary and accept across the board that it's not just troops, and this is the problem, we have not had any cooperation across the board from the real civilian agencies that need to be involved. we need a massive effort to win in afghanistan, but we need to make a national decision. i think the democratic party like the republican party are somewhat divided on this. >> senator, 20,000 troops, would
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you support that? >> i think the american people think the distinction between iraq -- well, there are two issues. one, the good news, the predators are working over time. we are safer today than six months ago because of the amazing -- i think they killed 12 of the 20 top al qaeda leaders. and that's point one. but two, you have to do this, but you have to do it the right way. there is a fighting force community building force. i would suppose, i would imagine, the lessons we learned in iraq will be replied to afghanistan and will take less
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time to get it done. >> i agree with that now, and in the last year the military and white house have started to say let's put together a comprehensive strategy to win in afghanistan. it doesn't have full political support. many people in my party and the other party have to remember that vietnam analogies are extremely dangerous. >> but yesterday the front page of "the week in review" had a comparison to vietnam. >> this is not vietnam. >> some say the situation in afghanistan is deteriorating. what have the taliban learned over the past several years in getting a competitive advantage? >> what they have learned is how to deal with the situation where there are fairly low troop levels and to come in with civilian agencies and afghan
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forces afterwards, once the u.s. troops ornate or nato troops leave, they come back. we need to come up with a strategy that brings the forces to a higher level of capability, but we will not do that when we are worrying about whether we are doing enough civilian or military. the united states is committed here. it has been seven long years for us to leave now without success. >> but that's the argument. politically, senator, you are saying it's so successful to have the strike. a lot of americans are saying why are we nation building and afghanistan, and why not just take out the predators and be
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done with it? >> it's working in pakistan. >> that's a question that has to be asked. >> warfare keeps changing. congress has not debated that. >> and what senator schumer did focus on, our civilian agencies have to do their share and we can win this. we'll be right back. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,
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it's the top of the hour. it's 8:00 in new york city. we start our trip across the
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country out west. 5:00 a.m. in los angeles sweep east a bit to the gateway to the west. look at that, beautiful sunrise over st. louis. >> we can do vegas now. >> why did we skip vegas, steve? that one is on you. here is washington, d.c. and then we bring it home, new york city, looking north. >> all right. thank you so much for being with us. we have a great lineup. jamie ruben is here, and anthony wiener is back and better than ever. savannah guthrie, and you were in "water world," too. >> yeah, it was a lifetime of preparation for this moment though. >> and mika is off. she is in northeast harvard.
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where else would you expect her to be in august? we are going to talk health care and afghanistan and torture in a minute. >> first, a look at today's top stories. there are reports of new recommendations coming down from the justice department to reopen several cases of abuse. and it's exposing intaerrogator to potential prosecution. and this is according to the "washington post" this morning. the plan bans certain interrogation methods, including sleep deprivation. >> that will work. >> the white house is facing a new financial set back, and
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slumping revenues and the figure is expected to swell to $9 trillion instead of 7 trillion projected this year. and the cash for concolors rebate program, car dealerships have until 8:00 p.m. tonight to file paperwork so they can be repaid on the incentives. >> sleep deprivation, what about that. >> yeah. anthony wiener, thank you for being back. jamie, you are here on what needs to be done in afghanistan, we need to put the additional troops in and we need to stay and do what it takes to bring stability to the country. that's a pretty tall order for president obama, isn't it, when you consider that his base on
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the left are going to be opposing that? >> i don't know if they will oppose him. i agree it's not a natural act for a democrat to support in afghanistan. this is not just any country. this is where 9/11 was hatched and organized. what i think is remarkable, all stories say the russians and the british could never get out and we are baited to the same result. that's nonsense. six or seven years after american troops are in afghanistan, they still by and large want us there and to succeed accept in the isolated areas where the taliban has taken over. this is a different situation. the people in that country are looking for some level of security and stability. it's a unique situation. and it's only recently in the
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last year that this country really put our shoulder to the wheel and began to develop a strategy, both military and civilian that will work. we have to support it and stop shying away from recommendations that may be necessary for the military. >> we have to underline it here, but the taliban is not pop with most afghanistan citizens? >> absolutely not. >> 15%. >> yeah, probably not. what it is, people in certain parts of afghanistan want stability and the war to stop, and if it means they accept the taliban, fine. and even after six or seven years of american military operations, by and large the afghan atlanta people still want our presence. that's unique and remarkable. what they were trying to do is different than what the russians and brits there were to do.
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i think it's a bad analogy. >> can you go to the town hall meetings and tell them we need more troops in afghanistan and we may be there for a decade? >> well, it's a tough job. the administration is laying out what the plan is. the notion of taking hold in afghanistan is a difficult thing. i am convinced after seeing what went on in iraq, our troops can do anything. if you give them a clear goal, even to the degree when what they wound updoing in iraq is social service, and there is a lot of skepticism in congress right now because there has not been a clearly articulated plan about how to do this. i think until the administration gets its arms around it, i think jamie is right, we are starting to see it take shape but it's still a difficult case to make.
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>> you said president obama needs to be more assertive on health care and you also think he needs to be more assertive for what is going on in afghanistan? >> well, the obama administration -- afghanistan arrived on their door with a lot of other things. now you do have to start coming to congress ex say listen, here is how we are going to do it. we don't know the exact number of months or years, but we know it's this. we had shifting plans and rationals, and i think it's important that the president stand up and say here is why i am asking your congressman to vote for this and this is what the out come might be. >> let's move to health care.
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we had chuck schumer saying medicare for all is not feasible. do you agree with senator schumer? >> i heard the president say the same thing. it's too much of a shock to the system. i am not sure why. for the purposes of each individual, remember under private insurance or medicare, it's the same. you get to choose your doctor and choose the doctor you get to go to in your neighborhood. and the patient would not see much change at all, if tomorrow that bill went to the insurance company, it goes to medicare, and it fwoez to the federal government. and the citizens will have a greater ability to control costs and some of the profit going into the insurance companies will go back to taxpayers or
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health care or back into the treasury. >> do you think it's part of the outrage that we saw from progressives last week, when there was talk about that. let's face it, many want a totally government-run program. they felt like going for one public option was already a compromise. >> here is the trouble. when the president laid out his vision for why we needed to do this, chuck schumer talked about this, the need to control costs. without a public option, you lost the real focus to get costs down. maybe you still have other ways to insure people, and without the public option you are not
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going to do it. it becomes a question of what we are doing here. if we are not controlling cost, we are wasting a once in every 30 year opportunity. >> do you wish the president had actually stood up for the public option? he continues to say i prefer it, but that doesn't give you anything -- >> there was argument for let congress massage this for a while. and over the august recess where we are trying to go out -- i am in a strange position where i am defending four or five different plans in addition to my own because the administration has not made it clear. what we are doing now is creating a vacuum and rush into the vacuum where people are making stuff up. and this is where we need the president to be very clear on what he wants, and then we will fight for it. i want to make it clear. as i said before on the show, i don't think that i have the votes for a single payer. and to be honest with you, i
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don't know if there are votes for a public option. and you ask, will i go on "morning joe" to build my plan. >> this president, he really has not done that, whether you are talking about the stimulus package or cap and trade or afghanistan or health care, he let congress take over. he stood back, and with health carrots so personal to people he has to go there and explain, this is what i believe in and this is why we need it and follow me. >> what is interesting, you see him fighting a two-front war. he is fighting progressives saying maybe we will have a public option, and for those that think it means government and takeover, he has to fight that. >> now, i think what we all need to do, everybody looks at it through the lens of their own
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experience. it would be helpful if we head, if you have private insurance right now at your job, for example, not only can't you lose it because under the bills out now your employer has to keep it for five years. and if you have no health insurance you will be able to go out and shop from a different couple plans including the public option. we will provide a subsidy to help you buy it. and medicare, and the department of defense and bureau of affairs, nothing happens to you. people really do look at it, and they care about the uninsured and deficit, and they care about their own family, really. that simple explanation of who you are and what this means to we have not done a good job of explaining. but we have been buffered by the
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nonstop stuff that we are talking about today. >> we are talking about the decision to allow the terrorists to go free? >> i think there are two things that should happen. i think our secretary of state should immediately introduce a resolution condemning those celebrations and calling on gadhafi to apologize for them. and secondly, i would like to know if there was a deal here. there was a story in many of the newspapers that this was done by the british government in return forgetting an oil contract. that would be despicable. these families did not get over their wounds for eight years. to let this person out, who was one of the greatest terrorists in the last 100 years is despicab despicable. >> jamie, does this cloud america's relationship with great britain if there is a possibility of an oil deal with libya for the release of a terrorists?
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>> i think it throws a banner in the works. there is no question people are troubled by this. i think the big losers in the long run are not only the families that have to watch this spectacle of the mass murderer cheered, but the libyans shot themselves in the foot. they are reminding everybody of their involvement in the terrorism. i think in terms of meetings with world meetings and they set their own cause back for a long time, because people will treat gadhafi with a hands-off approach. >> gadhafi was expected to meet with president obama when he comes to new york. >> yeah, meetings have been cancelled. and the other big loser are those that believe that the international criminal system is currently good enough to deal with terrorism. there is a flaw here. the scottish trial and prison,
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this was created in the '90s to deal with terrorism. it's not good enough to have a country like scotland, let this person go and have the families here and around the world look at this terrorist cheered. >> you are right. in the long run, the big ones are gadhafi and libya. >> absolutely. in the long run people will keep their distance from him. and this reminds everybody of his involvement in the terrorism business. >> always great to have you here. >> my pleasure. >> when do you see democrats coming together? september? is it possible? >> it's going to have to be. we need adult supervision, so we need the house to act here. we cannot wait -- honestly, it's getting ridiculous over there. we have to act and put the country back in order. >> you do that.
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thank you very much. coming up next, pat buchanan. that will be interesting. we will see what his take is. can wall street exstand last week's rally. after the break, karl bernstein. most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever.
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there should also be an honest debate. and it's spread by the folks who would benefit the most by
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keeping things exactly as they are. every creditable person who looked into it have said there is no so-called death panels. these are phoney claims meant to divide us. >> with us now, karl bernstein, author of "a woman in charge." we are talking about afghanistan and health care. before we do that, let's talk about hillary clinton. she has had a busy couple of weeks. a great piece yesterday in the "new york times" talking about how she is transforming world politics. how is she doing that? >> i think she is a great choice, and performing well. just like obama wanted her to, she is a celebrity like no other. she connects with women. she is a great executeor.
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and more than that -- >> the kclintons have played bal in a way the way everybody thought they would play ball. and even people like trent lott talked about the respect they had for her. bill clinton stayed in the background. >> she had influence over bill clinton, particularly after the campaign. the korean episodes and assignments curve him well. >> yeah, and do you buy she snapped at the press conference because of him. do you believe that? >> no. and the press tends to go
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towards the easy and sometimes it might be deserved. but when there is real substance, and right now she is performing in a real substantive way, it's not the story. the real story is the one that you referred to in the "new york times," which is about her execution of policy, which so far looks very depth, and obama's position looks good. >> august is almost over. they will come back, congress will be back, and how can they rest this back from republicans and folks on the liberal side with folks that are not pleased. >> i don't like to tell the president what to do, i am not good at that. >> it's okay here. >> one thing is we have to come to the realization that one of the two political parties is more engaged in cultural war far in this presidency than in
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constructive government. it's a hell of a problem for the country and might be a problem for the republican party in the next election. that's really what the republican party, both in congress and its leadership has become in this presidency. >> has the president let this go on too long? >> meanwhile, the president has a huge problem with his own party. and it's to say that there are about 10 or 15 senators that would rather put their own re-election considerations in front of all else. i will ask harold here, if i am right about this, he served there, that this is about the so-called blue dogs and their re-election prospects and their lobbying contributions, much more than it's about what they really believe. >> harold is that fair? >> i think, look, all of them worry about that. >> a little? >> one of the things that joe and i talked about earlier,
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legitimate concern about a lot of people who attend town halls that extend beyond the gun toters. and there is no doubt, there are a group of republicans -- joe and i disagree on this. there are a group that want to kill health reform. >> i don't disagree, by the way. that happens in politics. >> isn't this issue too important for a small or large group to just want to kill for the purpose of political victory? i ask both of you guys that? >> well, that happens in politics. i think the real question now for the party, for democrats is the one that you were asking chuck schumer about. are democrats going to use that procedure to push through a health care reform bill because they think it's big? i think that's the political
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question for the party. when they return in september, a big decision has to be made on the front. i don't know the answer. reconciliation is easier to talk about than to do. and getting to number 50, which i guess you can explain to people watching, reconciliation avoids a filibuster, which needs 60 votes to cut it off. reconciliation also does not mean there will be a public option. it's questionable whether they can get to 50 on the public option. they could get through the rest of the bill. but it might well be necessary, particularly, if ted kennedy can't vote and the republicans are unified and filibusters, it might be necessary to usury consillation. >> or you go back and address
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costs. two? doctor's choices. and they have to step back and maybe redo this entire campaign. health care reform is too big not to be passed, but you have to sell it in a way that will bring not just democrats but some republicans -- >> if you are a supporter of the president and of health care reform, you have to be hoping the white house is using august, using this time, to get the president's message together. so he is explain what he is for, instead of just explaining how republicans are demagoguing this issue. the problem is, there are a lot of moderate democrats that don't know what the president wants yet. >> and they don't the role of industry in this. i just got turned down for a $7,000 mri that was prescribed by my doctor. the bureaucracy that i have to
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go through, if possible, for being turned down for that mri. nothing is as bad as far as i know than the existing insurance companies. the issues have to be drawn much more clearly. the idea the insurance companies in this country are the great friends of all americans, much more than aig, i am not sure. >> we'll be right back. imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines
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we have a problem with terminology. we usually say either the economy is in recession or recovering. either you are in hell or heaven. the problem is we are in purgatory. >> let's get a check on business before the bell, with cnbc's international superstar, erin burnett. i think he had it right. we are in a financial purgatory. what is going on down there. >> well, speaking about purgatory, i heard that there were three people they highlighted. and we have to ask where do they see the market going now. one is a famous investor going out there.
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timber did well after he made the call. he now says -- back in march he said stocks were 30% under valued, and they are now up 50. and he said we were in for seven long years of economic growth. and so maybe great growth comes from overseas, but in this country it's hard to see a great growth forecast accept for the next several quarters, where we will see a big jump in the next couple quarters. >> what are you going to be looking at as indicators on how things are going to be going as we move into the fall? >> two important things. one, we will get case chiller, and that's an important number. you may remember bob calling the top of the housing market, and they have an index coming out once a month.
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you should still expect double digit declines. and that's still something to celebrate in the housing market. it comes down to housing. and the other thing we will watch is consumer sentiment. as we know, consumers, within the number there is one important thing to look at, the headline saying consumers are feeling glum or happy, but within that, you have to ask what is their expectations of the future. it's that number that tends to be correlating with consumer spending. and the market could selloff, but the real nugget could mean we have strengthen in spending. those are the two things to watch. >> how about the market today? how is it going to open? >> a little higher. >> it's not massively inspired. i cannot turn it into something
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it isn't. >> you kind of seem ambivalent at best. >> who does she look up after when she says that? >> we have a board over the camera. there are index prices on it. >> haines is wearing a tu-tu. >> haines gave me a tater tot. >> feel free to eat on tv. i do it all the time. we will be back with brother buchanan. this is great. buchanan and bernstein. this time it's for real. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.
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this is not a problem between barack obama and republicans. barack obama, his own democrats won't follow him. if they follow him, they can pass whatever they want. if they want to get out of both wars tomorrow if they want to shut down the pentagon tomorrow, they can pass whatever they want to pass. it's in their power, and there is not a thing any republican can do. >> ford, what are you talking about? >> you are lucky they did not pass the blue tie rule. >> yeah, if they decide they want to do that, they can. >> when they get ready to do that, wake me up. with us now, political
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analysts, pat buchanan. and also with us carl bernstein. and also, harold ford junior and savannah guthrie. i woke up in the middle of the night a couple days ago and said hey, wait a second, i can't tell you what i was actually thinking. but anyway, it just hit me a couple days ago. all of the talk about town hall meetings, and, you know, republicans, and yesterday frank rich went off on tom coburn. tom coburn has no power. rush limbaugh does not have power. fox news does not have power. barack obama's hammering these people. the democrats own washington, d.c. they can pass whatever they want to pass when ever they want to pass it. >> exactly right, joe. and what it gets down to is, the
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blue dogs apparently will not accept the public option, the government-run insurance company, and the progressives say they will not go for a bill that doesn't have it in there. this is a war between the progressives or liberals and the blue dogs. i don't think it will go through with 60 votes. it won't get all the democrats. that leaves with them, what they have to do, if they get the public option in the house and get some of the co-ops in the senate, the howard dean solution where they stick the public option back on the bill in conference and then try to roll the blue dogs in both houses. i don't know that will work. that's what they are down to. >> harold ford, so much distrust between blue dogs and moderate to conservative democrats and the liberals. and some say the blue dogs are
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owned by the insurance company, and they are not doing what is best for the united states. that's personal words inside the democratic party? >> well, i am a believer, you have to have bipartisan support for this. you can't blame democrats for republicans saying they will kill the bill. >> harold, they can't kill the bill? >> in many ways none of them will vote for it. >> harold, harold, harold -- i am not letting them off the hook. people need to know the truth about what is going on in washington, d.c. the truth is this, and you know it's the truth, harold. let me finish. every republican in washington, d.c. could get on a plane today and fly to france and obama
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would have the vote to pass health care reform? >> no. >> yes. >> well, because -- >> no, no, no. guys, come on. >> we don't have a parliamentary system any more than the republicans, they could get all the republicans -- >> carl, this is math. you get 60 votes in the senate. you have a 79 vote majority in the house. you don't need a republican vote. >> no, you assume that everybody in the party marchs -- >> no, i am not assuming that. >> that's not the case. >> you don't need republicans to pass this bill. >> you do to pass it in a certain form. if you got some republicans, for example, and -- >> republicans are not going to vote for this. >> exactly. >> i feel sorry for you guys.
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>> we are not going to consider the war, because you republicans have all the points. your point about blue dogs. they are not going to come back and vote for a public option that has no clear angle and clear definition of how you contain costs. this is where you are precisely right. until the white house can convincingly convey to democrats in the country, how the health care will contain costs, which i think will in the long run, that's the only way you can get blue dogs to come along. >> yeah, pat, barack obama can keep trying to blame republicans, fox news, rush limbaugh, but americans are smarter than that. democrats have 60 votes in the senate, and they have a 79-vote majority in the house. he has to get his team together, doesn't he? >> he certainly does. when they go to the eleaelect t
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in 2010, they could have done anything they wanted and they failed and they had full responsibility and therefore they are accountable. joe, i got up on saturday coming up over to msnbc, and they said obama made a slight mistake, the 10-year deficit total is $9 trillion, two trillion more, and now -- >> pat, he was only $2 trillion off. that was a six-month projection. only $2 trillion off in six months. >> yeah, we are talking about another $1 trillion entitlement program. are we serious? as warren buffett said last week, there are only a few ways to do that.
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what is going to hospital to the american dollar and the credit rating of the united states? i think the walker guy is the guy on the mark, and as a conservative, i will tell you, i would say, look, you guys, we can't afford this. i will go with cutting cost and other things. we cannot afford a trillion-dollar bill. >> yeah, and warren buffett was right, and i am a huge fan. >> what we really cannot afford, though, is to continue health care which is now 16% of gdp to keep growing exspa deny shawly. >> well, you say it does? >> well, the cbo says it does. >> what is wrong with the messaging? >> not everybody agrees with the problem. were it that simple.
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i think what joe is getting at and this discussion is getting at, there are all very complex, political, financial and the actual medical community parts of the problem. and each element is fighting with one another. the president has not found a way to come up with a consensus here. >> let me get back to joe's point. that's exactly right. have you the 60 votes and the 200 whatever it is, and here is joe lieberman saying maybe we have to do this thing inkrau mentally. and you have kent conrad. and they are saying we are not going with this. what will happen is the progressives will have to swallow and say, look, folks, obama has come to the conclusion, we are not going to get the public option. that's all there is to it. >> buchanan, you are right. afghanistan, the generals saying 20,000 more troops in. his base will be upset about
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that. does the president put more troops in afghanistan? >> i think the message was exactly that yesterday. what they are saying from afghanistan to the president is sir, we cannot win this war with the amount of troops we got and those coming. we are deteriorating and losing the war. it's going to be your call whether you up the number of troops by tens of thousands or whether we are going to fight a long war and lose it. that was the message i took out of afghanistan and it's deadly serious. >> i think we will send more troops. i think the president is going to honor the question. >> carl bernstein, yesterday the week in review, right on the front. echos on vietnam. obama is the next lbj. do you buy that argument? >> no, the reason we are there and we can debate that, if you are going to effectively fight al qaeda, not similar to iraq at all, afghanistan is where you
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have to engage al qaeda, because we can't go into pakistan. >> we can't go. you think we have to stay there? >> i think it's an argument one way and the other, but there might be better ways to do it. but the president has got to find out if there are better ways, if there are not, then we are going to have to engage al qaeda wherever we can. >> pat buchanan. are we going to be in afghanistan 10 years from now? >> no. i don't believe so. >> five years from now? >> i would say no. i think that we have got -- i think the president has a window, as mullen said, 12 to 18 months. if we are not winning then, i think the united states, the people will say cut our losses and let's go home. >> we'll be right back. thanks, pat. vo: why spend $5 per person at the drive-thru,
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well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. welcome back to "morning joe." we are so excited to have savannah guthrie with us. we do this every morning. >> i don't remember anything being very memorable. but here is the "morning joe" moment. >> to citizens, they won't see any change at all except the ability to grow costs and the profit that will go into insurance companies will go back
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into tax cuts or back into the treasury, and we will save money. without a public option, you lost the way to get costs down. and getting cost down without a public option, you will not do it. i think the time has come for the president to say here is why we need it and here is what it needs. what we are doing is creating a vacuum, and people are just making stuff up. this is where we need the president to be very clear on what he wants, and then we will fight for it. >> that's such a moment you chose. >> yeah, a documentary series. >> yeah, and that was a discussion with joe that started last week. round two. he was back. >> a healthy debate. >> clear thicker. coming up next, what if anything did we learn today. start thinking. the great taste
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it's time that we talk about what we learned today. willie, what did you learn? >> i learned about hieidi, she
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was there last night. >> harold ford, what did you learn? >> well, looking at miss universe, you and i are out. >> what did you learn, carl bernstein? >> that you and the democrats are in firm control of washington. >> if they are not now, brother, they never will be. filibuster proof. >> it's not that symbol yet. you have been there. >> i was never in congress when the republicans had that great of a majority. what did you learn today? >> i learned the dress code here is very loose. capehart wore his pajamas. they looked good. >>
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